Cass and Dan graciously took some time to chat with newsletter reporter 7 about their upcoming consensual nonmonogamy discussion group.
7: Tell me something about yourselves, and More Amore: A Consensual Nonmonogamy Discussion.
Dan: When Cass and I met, we were both leaving long-term marriages that were monogamous in a traditional sense. And they had all of the problems that bad monogamous marriages have, including infidelity and those sorts of things. When we left those marriages monogamy was not something either of us wanted to continue. So Cass and I have never been in a monogamous relationship with each other. We’ve had our ups and downs, we’ve had arguments, we’ve had our disagreements, we’ve had jealousy and all sorts of things to work through that we didn’t think we were going to have to work through because we’ve never been monogamous. As you build attachments and emotions, especially as you’re establishing a new relationship, there are things that get in the way. So, we’ve tripped, we’ve stumbled, we’ve fallen, we’ve picked ourselves back up. We continue to move forward. There has never been a serious discussion about just being monogamous that lasted longer than 30 seconds, because one of us says it and the other says, “Bullshit.” People work through this.
Cass: We figure out how to make it work.
Dan: We both tried monogamy before and it didn’t work. That’s not who we are as people. We’ve been together now going on five years?
Cass: Yes.
Dan: Married now for a year and a half, and we’ve combined our lives. I think this group is a good opportunity for us to just talk and share. Some of our best conversations are with other couples around our dining room table. Some of them are just entering nonmonogamy, some of them have been nonmonogamous for years. We have open discussions where people share their feelings, problems, and solutions. The goal of this discussion group is to replicate that openness, to build that kind of community and that friendly, open conversation. And hey, if people meet somebody and hook up, that’s good too!
Cass: We just want people to feel the love. You know, we don’t all have to love one way.
7: I love the idea of it being like a dining room conversation. I wanted to ask what each of you call your own individual practices of nonmonogamy. Do you have labels that you use for them?
Cass: Not really, because it’s always evolving. When we hit Covid neither one of us was seeing anyone else, and then he happened to meet somebody he was very interested in. I totally encouraged that relationship, because he’d been isolated at home since the beginning of March, whereas I have to go out to work, so I get to socialize more. So when he met someone I was like, “Hey, babe, you’re safe, she’s safe, this could be a thing. This could be that outlet that you need.” But it’s not an actually established relationship.
Dan: No, because the new variants came, and cases just kept going up. Covid is still a problem, so we’re working through those issues. For me, sex is better when I have an emotional connection with the people that I’m with. I tend to be more polyamorous. We’re active in the swinger community, and so we have swinger couple friends, we have polyamorous couple friends that we spend time with and that we play with over time, and that we’ve established really…
Cass: Deep connections.
Dan: I’m looking for a word. Delicious. Tasty. Savory.
Cass: (Laughs)
Dan: Basically connections where we have real…
Cass: They’re friends with benefits.
Dan: Exactly.
Cass: But no actual labels on anything. Because their relationship is different, and our relationship is different, but together we have a good time!
Dan: Cass tends to be more, hook up and leave me alone.
Cass: Yeah. I’m more of a swinger type.
Dan: If she’s dating it’s usually, “Don’t call me on my birthday. I have people for that.” That tends to be the way that Cass plays outside the marriage, when we’re not playing together.
7: It’s great that you can have those individual styles and blend them into something that works together. Since More Amore includes a spectrum of nonmonogamy styles, what commonalities do you see within those?
Dan: Everybody’s looking for connection, everybody’s looking for pleasure, love, we’re looking for something beyond tea and crumpets with friends.
Cass: Everybody wants to feel desired. Everyone wants to be seen as attractive, and everyone wants to feel an emotional connection. I don’t want to say just of a sexual nature, but a physical connection. I could be very attracted to someone mentally, and not want to have sex with them. Or I could be attracted to someone and only want to fuck them. Sometimes a relationship can start out as just sex, but it could evolve into something more long term, and that’s one of the beautiful things about our lifestyle and our community.
Dan: Yeah, you never know who you’re going to meet.
Cass: It’s a very small community. You think it’s big, but it’s very small. Like, some of the people he was with in a poly relationship were in my kink group, and it turns out, she’s like, “Hey, I’ve got this guy that I think you really might like.” And it turned out that I’d already heard his name before. It’s amazing how small our community is, which is both a good and bad thing.
7: It’s cool that you had multiple connections before your relationship started.
Dan: I think people in the various CNM [consensual nonmonogamy] communities, at different points over the years, move between those groups. Some things become more important to you, and so you move into a different lifestyle for a while, and you can move back. It all depends on what your needs are at the time. But there’s a lot of overlap. Everybody likes labels, everybody likes to define themselves in certain ways, because it helps us see ourselves, it helps us to form our image, it helps us make decisions, and that’s okay. But there’s a lot of overlap.
7: Makes sense. Is there something that you have personally taken away from seeing how other people practice nonmonogamy?
Cass: That shit can change. Your relationship could be working the same way for ten, twelve, fifteen years, and then something can change, either for you or your partner. You’re either going to be okay with that change, or you’re going to move on. People change, so relationships can change.
7: That’s good advice for any relationship.
Dan: We have friends who have been together since high school. They’ve been open, they’ve been swingers and poly, for probably the last ten to twelve years. And they’re one of the most loving couples I’ve ever met. The reason it continues to work, despite the fact that they’ve had complicated relationships with other people that impacted their own relationship, is that they always prioritize each other through all of that, and so it’s been stable. And they’ve always accepted the fact that love is not limited. It’s not like you have a finite pot. Love is boundless. You have a well that you can dip into an infinite number of times. They’re probably the best example of a consensual nonmonogamous couple...
Cass: …making it work.
Dan: Yeah, making it work. They’re both happy. We’ve had them at our kitchen table too.
7: How do you hope that More Amore will contribute to the community?
Cass: I think it’s going to give people the vision that you can be loved the way you want to be loved, plain and simple. I left my marriage because my husband was not listening to me when I was bringing up desires and wants and needs. I was just not being fulfilled. And if I can save somebody from that, that’s why I’m here. Don’t settle for not being loved the way you want to be loved.
Dan: And I hope that this group gives people a place where they feel safe asking questions and having honest discussions about how they feel and about the problems that they’re having. As a group we can all build on each other’s experiences. If you’ve made a mistake and tell me about it, then that’s a mistake that I don’t have to make. I probably will, but I don’t have to. (laughs) So that’s what we’re hoping for. So people can meet people, we can build community.
Once the world opens back up again, that’s another great opportunity. If this discussion group can build a community of people that are comfortable with each other, then we can start having in-person parties down the line that people are going to be comfortable joining, and you’ll already have some background. We’ll have some fun!
7: Sounds amazing! Any final thoughts?
Cass: Right now, this is me speaking as a bi woman of color. It has been so … frustrating isn't even the word. When I leave my house every day I mentally prepare myself to be confronted by racists, bigots, all the evil people out there that just feel so free because the world is so full of toxic bullshit right now.
Being a part of the CSPC gives me comfort. It is a place where I do feel seen, secure, cared for, and loved. The CSPC has been a beacon, even though everything’s virtual right now, it’s a safe place. I love feeling safe. I can come, I can vent, I can cry, but I don’t feel judged. I just feel loved. And I want everyone to feel that way.
Meet Cass and Dan and learn more about CNM at More Amore: A Consensual Nonmonogamy Discussion on April 11th.